Remove mom_restart_stage: Page 2 - Momentum Mod Forums

Remove mom_restart_stage

Gocnak

Well, some more context around my background, I come from HL2 speedrunning which allows saving and loading at literally any point, to allow for more optimized runs. Surf, bhop, ahop, conc, and tricksurf allow teleporting back during timer running right now.

Thank you @zer0k_z for clarifying, I have no problem with that since it's very clear TP/Pro distinction. In KZ's case, it would also be allowed, but immediately mark it as a TP run, which is fine by me.

This leaves RJ/SJ as "not allowed". What I'm asking for is, can we try a mom_restart_zone command out, let mappers/zoners define whether or not a checkpoint ("jump" in these modes) allows it, and see how the jump community likes grinding a map with it? I'd hate for them to miss out on something like this (@cowboyana shows there's some interest at least in some method) and potentially handicap the modes for the sake of previous community consistency.

I'm certain we'd have significantly less people upset about adding it than we would surfers/bhoppers/concers/ahoppers upset about its removal.

Ark_

fingerprince I just can't get my head around the idea of letting mappers specify whether you can stage restart. Not only does it seem like complete overengineering, but it doesn't even seem clear what problem you're even trying to solve at that point.

Well its currently exactly what it means to be a stage isn't it? Currently there are 2 differences between a stage and a checkpoint:

Stages track WRCP, and are resettable via bind
Checkpoints track splits, and are not resettable via bind

My point is that this model doesn't work well outside of surf really, as previously stated surf is the only mode where it's really necessary to have fast fails bound to a button like this. Maybe its enough to just make it so only surf can stage reset, but when you consider that some modes like RJ can use their mechanics directly to help speed up the process of hitting the fail trigger adding a button to streamline that process is really pretty minor.

Gocnak I do think that adding a QoL feature everywhere is generally better than removing it everywhere, and of course i'm always going to be down with more consistency between modes. Consitency with the previous community is also one of the weaker arguments i think, after all momentum isn't supposed to be just tf2 or just css, but a new game that has the ability to make changes and be a fresh start.

hex

Gocnak Surf, bhop, ahop, conc, and tricksurf allow teleporting back during timer running right now.

conc and tricksurf? huh lol. in tfc you definitely don't have the ability to do that, you even have to wait ~ 3 seconds for your concs from your previous attempt to explode which is quite literally the opposite (and people were OK with that). right now in momentum every conc map is zoned in the same way rj/sj maps are because they work similarly in that they have individual levels (checkpoints in mmod) and occasionally courses (stages in mmod). tricksurf i don't understand how that fits here at all, you don't even have map runs or stages in that mode.

Gocnak What I'm asking for is, can we try a mom_restart_zone command out, let mappers/zoners define whether or not a checkpoint ("jump" in these modes) allows it, and see how the jump community likes grinding a map with it?

and i did say earlier that i'd have no issue asking people what they think even if i'm pretty sure they would rather not since change=bad.

Gocnak . . . and potentially handicap the modes for the sake of previous community consistency

how is not including a teleport button a handicap? in terms of time save it's usually less than a few seconds per fail because 1. you can shoot yourself down in rj/sj to decide to fail faster already and 2. maps are designed to avoid excessive falling in the first place.

Gocnak I'm certain we'd have significantly less people upset about adding it than we would surfers/bhoppers/~~concers/~~ahoppers upset about its removal.

and like i said above we don't have to remove it because i understand that going with "previous community consistency" this is what people are used to an expect coming from cs. the current behavior would be fine to leave in the game because it's basically useless in rj/sj/conc (when would you ever want to restart to the start of a course and lose progress on whatever jumps youve done) and will never be used in those modes. if we want to try adding a command to let you reset to the start of your last checkpoint zone we can but we need to talk to people first to determine if they even want that, it's not a small change.

Jabra

Hey, haven't read everything and don't know how you have progressed. But just making some side points.

More time spent using your skill, more competitive, more "cultural significance"! I'm scared that fall time can add up to large numbers at lenght and cause "competitive waste" and "learning time waste". So I believe fall time especially to be in the disinterest of the very top competitors, maybe learners as well.

Another concern is about your solution for this; whether high and tight teleports can destroy possible shortcuts and beautiful spontaneity! Though this concern somewhat contradicts my first concern because shortcuts often destroy competitive times (but shortcuts indeeed create cultural significance just looking at the booming views of Wirtual's vids.)

Maybe not very relevant.
Otherwise just hope you will find a solution in balance with the communties ofc.

Jabra

A reminder about a related issue.

The linear stage maps on Momentum will remove the prespeed WRCP's. I know you had arguments for this. I know it is more preferable to how it works for example on KSF, especially from a competitive point of view. But it is a suboptimal solution because the WRCP's don't fit the map WR!

As I have talked about before, stage runs should assist or reflect the main map run because that accelerates competitiveness due to several reasons (I was going to edit all reasons in ... but it was getting too lengthy)

I saw on Trackmania that the checkpoints save the velocity, but that can't exactly work either, but just an example, but maybe something close to that?

I don't understand the complexity of this topic because I don't know the other game modes that well.
But now when you are already analyzing "the grand scheme of spawning", you could perhaps also try to be creative and think about a solution for this issue.

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